Indecent Dressing

[oluranti]

It first came to me as news from the pulpit on Sunday that over a hundred people were arrested for indecent dressing in Lagos state. Oh was i happy!

Later yesterday i heard it on news and read it in the papers that even the University of Ilorin has banned plating of hair by male and even the use of ear rings by males.

My God, it was a big relief to know that we still have some decent parents and administrators in this country. But the question is why did it take them this long to respond to indecent dressing in the country?

Two, who determines what is indecent dressing? I hope it will be well spelt out so that the law enforcement agents dont take advantage of the people. But to tell you the truth, I LOVE IT! God bless whoever moved the motion!
:D

[Beneli]

Two, who determines what is indecent dressing? I hope it will be well spelt out so that the law enforcement agents dont take advantage of the people. But to tell you the truth, I LOVE IT! God bless whoever moved the motion!
:D


That's my only concern in this issue.

In essense, it's good for us not to allow things to get out of hand as they have in Western Europe and North America, but we should also not allow things to swing completely the other way into a police state where "big brother" will determine what you wear, what you eat, how you spend your time and so on.

In such a situation tyranny would only be a doorstep away...

[oluranti]

Thanks Beneli, but can we try and define what indecent dressing should look like or may be the other way roud, what is a decent dressing. Please take into consideration , the different cultures.

There are places where they wear only singlet and wrapper, men that is. And there are some nothern tribes whose men put on earings. the normadics, to be specific, and so many other dressing codes for other places.

Please let's try and define waht decent dressing should be!

[xeun]

Thanks Beneli, but can we try and define what indecent dressing should look like or may be the other way roud, what is a decent dressing. Please take into consideration , the different cultures.

There are places where they wear only singlet and wrapper, men that is. And there are some nothern tribes whose men put on earings. the normadics, to be specific, and so many other dressing codes for other places.

Please let's try and define waht decent dressing should be!

exactly my fears.there was an incident in OAU,sometime back where the students,especially the female students complained of molestation from the security in school cos of indecent dressing.this led to a full scale protest and pronto was part of the reason the school was closed down.

exactly what is indecent dressing.dont envisage this will go on for long cos u said it all,we have different tribes with different modes of dressing.

[fulani]

In essense, it's good for us not to allow things to get out of hand as they have in Western Europe and North America, but we should also not allow things to swing completely the other way into a police state where "big brother" will determine what you wear, what you eat, how you spend your time and so on.

In such a situation tyranny would only be a doorstep away...

You are on both sides of the issue here. You can't have it both ways although I suspect that you do not like the idea of 'big Brother'

My feeling is that societies change, for the good the bad the ugly. I personally am a Libertarian... so you know I only want limited Govt. otherwise we degenerate into communisim.

[omowhy]

On this very issue i think some girls are going to far this days, am not saying you should not dress well but, be moderate in it. We are going the western way and forgetting our culture and value. Only God knows what it will be like in the next twenty years. He dey pain me o!

[adetayo olusegun]

since there's no better time to start a thing than now,i believe the instruction came @ the right time moreover i know peopke like us have in diverse ways talked about it before now.this' just to show us that no matter how long our right living message may take someay, it'll carch in others heart.
the guys who plait make me remember the legend film SANGO O,but even then sango was the only one allowed to do such but we have noe the breed of sango.this recent decree by institutions and Lagos state govt points to the fact that NAIJA is taking her moral place back in the society.

[DoubleWahala]

I'm surprised that this disscussion has been going on without any reference whatsoever to our laws; in this case, our constitution.

Our constitution provides for freedom of expression and freedom from discrimination. What you wear and how you choose to wear it constitutes a fundamental pillar of the freedom of expression. Harrassing people because of what they're wearing is quite discriminatory. Agreed, freedom is never absolute, but you simply cannot go about telling people what they should wear or shouldn't wear, without basing it upon any law. It is illegal, period!

There are laws that provide for indecent exposure, which really means that the genitalia and (for women) breasts should be covered up in public. Now, it has been established in the courts (at least in the U.S.) that so long as a woman's nipples and surrounding aureola are covered, she cannot be convicted for indecent exposure.

The law in Nigeria regarding this issue of indecent exposure, is under-developed. We should enact new laws first, before trying to harrass citizens, based upon our private notions of what constitutes indecent dressing/exposure.

To do otherwise would be to promote the notion that we are nothing but a banana republic!

DW

[fulani]

I'm surprised that this disscussion has been going on without any reference whatsoever to our laws; in this case, our constitution.


To do otherwise would be to promote the notion that we are nothing but a banana republic!
DW

2 things...the first section my quote.. where you refering to the US constitution?..because later in your post you suggested that the Nigerian version may be under developed.

Was the pun intended 'banana republic'.. because I see nothing wrong with that clothing line:D

[DoubleWahala]

2 things...the first section my quote.. where you refering to the US constitution?..because later in your post you suggested that the Nigerian version may be under developed.

Was the pun intended 'banana republic'.. because I see nothing wrong with that clothing line:D

De Fulani!! I dey hail you ooo!!

Nope, I was refering to the Nigerian constitution. However, my reference to "indecent exposure" had to do with U.S. laws. That was why I chimed that our (Naija) laws may be under-developed in this regard.

Let me elaborate; our constitution affirms (amongst some other rights) the twin rights of freedom of expression and freedom from discrimination. However, our laws (other than the constitution), like state laws, criminal laws, etc. are not as developed as the U.S. Therefore, the only way we can get up to speed on this indecent dressing/exposure, is if we first enact laws on indecent exposure and dressing.

This will serve as a legal template for attacking indecent exposure.

Of course, my take is purely from a legalistic view-point. From a social context, like you, I'm a libertarian. I do not believe in the imposition of a 'nanny state', trying to tell us what to wear or not to wear.

The idea is ludicrous!!!

DW

P.S. As for that clothing line by the same name...what can I say? Their designs are cool. Kick-ass, as a matter of fact. :)

[fulani]

:confused:

The man DW...talk about arriving @ the Forum with a bang!...welcome again... anyway enough of the nicities.

Okay, on an earlier post you seem to suggest (and rightly so ) that if we do not have a developed set of laws we might degenerate to 'banana republic' status.. I agree with you..., the works of Hobbes, Locke, and Rousseau taught us this lesson.

However, you go on later to point out your libertarian bent. Now, don't you think there is a conflict with these two positions?

If you recognize this conflict, what do you think is the compromise for society in order not to have individual behaviour run amuck as it were. But at the same time protecting civil liberties.

[oluranti]

Thank God this issue means much to some of us. Thank God also that the governor of Lagos state is a Lawyer. I sincerely hope he considered the law aspect before embarking on the raid.

I also wish we could have a way of letting the people in Government feel our pulse on some issues of governance on this web. Is there anyway we can call their attention to our activities on this web, so that we will not just be gisting but somehow become a pressure group.

No Fulani, this is not about aluta!

[omowhy]

We are in a world that is gradually moving to a time once described in the Bible. In everything we do it has to have a limit, we do not have to go out naked all in the name of fashion. I saw a girl recently on my way to work she was wearing a transparent cloth that revealed everything, i had to control myself. Am not against what the government is doing but, there have to be a way of monitoring the agency's that will be in charge. You all know our police.

[xeun]

yeah,my thinking double wahala

i can wear whateva suits me and and sue the governor for harassing me.who decides what is morally right and wrong.abeg

[fulani]

Thank God this issue means much to some of us. Thank God also that the governor of Lagos state is a Lawyer. I sincerely hope he considered the law aspect before embarking on the raid.

I also wish we could have a way of letting the people in Government feel our pulse on some issues of governance on this web. Is there anyway we can call their attention to our activities on this web, so that we will not just be gisting but somehow become a pressure group.

No Fulani, this is not about aluta!

Oluranti... what you echoed forming a pressure group is certainly in play. We have to achieve critical mass for any meaningful impact. Thats why you have to encourage your thinking friends and family to join the Forum.

Okay..enough already about the aluta! stuff. I mentioned that earlier to push your button. In this Forum we should also challenge each other.. that way we learn and grow from each other..no?

[DoubleWahala]

:confused:

The man DW...talk about arriving @ the Forum with a bang!...welcome again... anyway enough of the nicities.

Okay, on an earlier post you seem to suggest (and rightly so ) that if we do not have a developed set of laws we might degenerate to 'banana republic' status.. I agree with you..., the works of Hobbes, Locke, and Rousseau taught us this lesson.

However, you go on later to point out your libertarian bent. Now, don't you think there is a conflict with these two positions?

If you recognize this conflict, what do you think is the compromise for society in order not to have individual behaviour run amuck as it were. But at the same time protecting civil liberties.

Fulani...nice observation/questions.

There's no conflict whatsoever in my libertine stance and insistence on doing things the proper and legal way.

You see, quite a huge chunk of law draws its validity and acceptance from moral precepts; from our collective sense of what is right and wrong. I said the government should enact laws on indecent dressing, knowing fully well that such a law would be difficult or next to impossible to formulate:D .

For instance, there can never be any objective notion of what constitutes 'indecent dressing'. It has to be subjective, for the simple reason that no two persons are alike. The problem is further compounded when you realise that it is extremely difficult to apply laws in a subjective sense.

Therefore, the law can only be made by stating precisely what not to wear. Now, the standards for this vary from culture to culture. In the west, which is democratic, permissive, individualistic and laissez-faire, it usually means dont come out naked in public. So long as the privates are covered, the law is satisfied. I believe this should also be the yard-stick in Naija, because we operate a democracy, not a military dictatorship.

The hood does not make the monk. Nigeria is not where she is today because of indecent dressing. Rather, its because of the bottomless cesspool of corruption, perpertuated by our so-called leaders and rulers. It is these same corrupt m-o-r-o-n-s that now say people should dress 'decently'. What rubbish!!

We operate a democracy, for goodness sakes. This means that people have to be carried along. The government has no business legislating on personal morals. That is the province of religious institutions and personal moral convictions.

DW

[omowhy]

You are right xeun to wear what ever you want but, it should be moderate. If we don't start now i just can't imagine what the future will hold. Are people going to walk naked?

[oluranti]

Fulani...nice observation/questions.

There's no conflict whatsoever in my libertine stance and insistence on doing things the proper and legal way.

You see, quite a huge chunk of law draws its validity and acceptance from moral precepts; from our collective sense of what is right and wrong. I said the government should enact laws on indecent dressing, knowing fully well that such a law would be difficult or next to impossible to formulate:D .

For instance, there can never be any objective notion of what constitutes 'indecent dressing'. It has to be subjective, for the simple reason that no two persons are alike. The problem is further compounded when you realise that it is extremely difficult to apply laws in a subjective sense.

Therefore, the law can only be made by stating precisely what not to wear. Now, the standards for this vary from culture to culture. In the west, which is democratic, permissive, individualistic and laissez-faire, it usually means dont come out naked in public. So long as the privates are covered, the law is satisfied. I believe this should also be the yard-stick in Naija, because we operate a democracy, not a military dictatorship.

The hood does not make the monk. Nigeria is not where she is today because of indecent dressing. Rather, its because of the bottomless cesspool of corruption, perpertuated by our so-called leaders and rulers. It is these same corrupt m-o-r-o-n-s that now say people should dress 'decently'. What rubbish!!

We operate a democracy, for goodness sakes. This means that people have to be carried along. The government has no business legislating on personal morals. That is the province of religious institutions and personal moral convictions.

DW

DW, i disagree with you o. they may have been corrupt, they may have been morons, that does not mean they can't do anything good at all. Let's be frank. When someone's liberty to swing his hands becomes athreat to another man's nose, the liberty ends.

Our ladies dress provocatively these days that any weak man will simply molest them. One of the precautions against rapist is proper dressing. Why should we allow some morally bankrupt people to tempt our people and lead them into crime?

Please, there has got to be a stop to it. But it must be done legally as you said. Once the law is agreed and not challenged, it becomes operational. Chikena

[xeun]

DW, i disagree with you o. they may have been corrupt, they may have been morons, that does not mean they can't do anything good at all. Let's be frank. When someone's liberty to swing his hands becomes athreat to another man's nose, the liberty ends.

Our ladies dress provocatively these days that any weak man will simply molest them. One of the precautions against rapist is proper dressing. Why should we allow some morally bankrupt people to tempt our people and lead them into crime?

Please, there has got to be a stop to it. But it must be done legally as you said. Once the law is agreed and not challenged, it becomes operational. Chikena

ummmm,what has our govt done that has benefitted us in all if not to bolster their ego and self interest.and i dont tihnk am gonna be interested in any girl that does not wear trouser cos i like the way it looks on them.and if my wife wants big trouble,she should stop wearing trousers.

[DoubleWahala]

ummmm,what has our govt done that has benefitted us in all if not to bolster their ego and self interest.and i dont tihnk am gonna be interested in any girl that does not wear trouser cos i like the way it looks on them.and if my wife wants big trouble,she should stop wearing trousers.

Gbosa!!! Gbosa!! My sentiments, exactly!!

http://forums.vault9.net/style_emoticons/default/blowup.gif http://forums.vault9.net/style_emoticons/default/blowup.gif http://forums.vault9.net/style_emoticons/default/blowup.gif http://forums.vault9.net/style_emoticons/default/Jumpy.gif

DW

[oluranti]

ummmm,what has our govt done that has benefitted us in all if not to bolster their ego and self interest.and i dont tihnk am gonna be interested in any girl that does not wear trouser cos i like the way it looks on them.and if my wife wants big trouble,she should stop wearing trousers.


Xeun, no one is saying no to trousers. Am sure you dont want your wife to wear a pair of trousers that shows half of her G-string when she sits down in a bus. She harasses people behind her and gives evidence of weak moral background. Or may be in the guise of trendy life she wears a top that shows half of her bosssom such that every one can describe what her milk container looks like.

Common, there has got to be moderacy in whatever anybody does!

[omowhy]

By the way things are going with our lady's this day you just can't know who is a prostitute among them. To make matters worse even our high class mother are joining the trend. were are we going?

[DoubleWahala]

Xeun, no one is saying no to trousers. Am sure you dont want your wife to wear a pair of trousers that shows half of her G-string when she sits down in a bus. She harasses people behind her and gives evidence of weak moral background. Or may be in the guise of trendy life she wears a top that shows half of her bosssom such that every one can describe what her milk container looks like.

Common, there has got to be moderacy in whatever anybody does!

Oluranti, yes you're right about many people not feeling comfortable about others' dress sense. But where you 'miss road' small is assuming that the government should tell people how to dress!

These things have a way of taking care of themselves. For instance, the example you gave about the girl showing half her g-string; at some point in her life, she'll realise that no decent man will take her seriously. She will, on her own, begin to dress more sensibly.

Also, I dont think that most women dress indecently in Nigeria. Should we therefore seek to control how everyone dresses, just because a minority decides to dress indecently?

I think we will end up giving too much power to the government to control our lives. If they start controlling how we dress today, who knows what they will want to control tommorrow?

Be careful of what you wish for, you just might get much more than you bargained for.

DW

[Madonna]

The case of indecent dressing i think has reduced in some of our higher institutions.
For instance university of lagos at a point was known for indecent dressing, Asper the way our girls expose their bodies all in the name of fashion.
The school authority decided to ban indecent dressing by embarassing them from the school gate to lecture rooms, and this has really helped.
May God help us all.

[Yago]

While I am personaly for decency in all cases, that is my personal views. I however do not think the Govt. should dictate how people dress as long as the essentials are covered. Yes I am a Christian and I believe everyone will answer to their God eventually but I also believe even God gives man free will and a free spirit. The will to do wrong and the will to do right.
For those who think it is the place of the Govt. to become the fashion police, I have one question;
How do you think the Taliban got started? I believe it is a little at a time, here a little, there a little and so forth.
What is decent by the way? This varies from culture to culture. For example in some localities, a womans unshaven armpit is considered erotic while to me and thankfully to the majority of the population in my current locality, that is just plain disgusting. Now you see what I mean. Opinions and views will always vary.

You don't have to agree with me; you have a right to be wrong---LOL

[kennee7]

Didn't have time 2 read all what y'all said, but lemme jus add dat, no matta the angle any1 sees it frm, Dressing indecently by women to entice men (all in d name of fashion) simply shows how low women can go.
Lemme tell u women, d virtuous woman will always know e'day dat her body is her pride and most priced asset, so if una like make una no start 2 cover up, l sorry 4 una.....

[omowhy]

From what i see this days it's like the women folks just don't care about what they wear this days. how do you feel to see a chick on the road with a see through blouse? I call that advertising. I believe there have to be check and balance so some can still keep there head together

[Dan-Borno]

I however do not think the Govt. should dictate how people dress as long as the essentials are covered.

To some extent, government can dictate on how people dress, as sited above, universities and other institutions of higher learning are now strictly adhering to the dress codes, infact volunteer students are campaigning against bad dressing.

Another important issue is how 'we' men patronise women with such dresses, despite we wont be happy to see our daughter, sister, mum or cousing dressing in such manner, we keep on encouraging them by saying 'wow, this dressing is superb' or in so many occasion paying the bills on the shopping.

[ayojoey]

there are existing laws of nudity in the land. and if universities want to harass there students for indecent dressing they should spell out a dress codes for the duration of the course.
alls well though its a good development:D

[Dim]

For us to assume that it's a government role to harass people in the name of policing indecency is somewhat ridiculous. This silly dressing anomaly like every other social element is shaped by prevalent orientation. I sound a little vague. I know. But fact is a lot of those who claim to be against it revel in it.

[chines]

Thank God this issue means much to some of us. Thank God also that the governor of Lagos state is a Lawyer. I sincerely hope he considered the law aspect before embarking on the raid.

I also wish we could have a way of letting the people in Government feel our pulse on some issues of governance on this web. Is there anyway we can call their attention to our activities on this web, so that we will not just be gisting but somehow become a pressure group.

No Fulani, this is not about aluta!

Oluranti, It will equally interest you to know that Lagos state Government and human right org. have also engage services of lawyers to effect bail to the ladies arrested due to indecent dressing.

People should feel free to dress as they like, if you don't like it. close your eyes.

[omowhy]

Every body has the right to dress the way he or she likes, but there have to be limit to it. I don't think it be nice to see a lady on the road with a see through dress. I know i have fallen for such things not once. Make them take am easy